Pickleball Mindset & No Giving a Sh!t at 40 | Tony Roig w/ Better Pickleball

We’re coming in hot with:
 🔹 Total knee replacement, hospital diapers, zero chill
 🔹 Turning 40 and dropping the people-pleaser act
 🔹 A bronze medal comeback fueled by one smile

Plus, Tony Roig from Better Pickleball joins us to unpack why perspective wins more matches than pretty mechanics. From pressure-proofing your mind to rethinking improvement, this conversation changes how you approach the court.

🎧 Listen now before you blame your partner again.
 #BigDinkEnergy

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

So my new era is turning 40. I would say the biggest change in this new era that's coming up is just the I don't give a fan.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

This is Big Dink Energy, the pickleball podcast that's half insight, half nonsense, and all entertainment. If you love pickleball, don't take your stuff too seriously and think a little trash talk makes the game better. Welcome home. This is the place where life and pickleball intersect. We celebrate the chaos, call out the nonsense, and put the fun back in dysfunction. You're either in or you're out. And if you're still listening, you're in. So let's go. Big Dink Energy starts live after the close to share.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

That was my close to share.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

But do you believe in the Big Dink Energy Podcast, the official podcast of Pickleball coming live to you, free of charge for now, so get it while you can.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

You sounded like Cher from the Grammys this year. Yeah. She was lost.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Cher is a Grammy and a Grammy and a Grammy. She is uh lost in the sauce out there. She was out there. Hard to hide the diaper. Listen, listen, listen to me right now. We've got a sponsor. Yes, we do. We've got a sponsor. How about you? Well, I think you do want this. There's a million apps for tracking your score. Zero for tracking the memories. Dink and Dash is changing that. Listen, I said dink and dash is changing that. Badges, journals,

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SPEAKER_00 1:27

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SPEAKER_01 1:45

All right. For kitchen talk this week, I thought we would talk about something different. All three of us.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Don't we always well?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

We don't really talk about this. This is a little bit more personal.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Um, so all three of us are kind of in our rebrand era, whether we like it or not. We all have something different going on at this time in our lives that is really changing us. It's deep within us, it's physical, it's mental, it's emotional. Uh,

Kitchen Talk - Hot takes, weird news, and what’s on our minds this week

SPEAKER_01 2:10

so I thought we would all kind of talk about that a little bit. Guy, do you want to go first with your news?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yes, I stubbed my toe the other day.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

You're literally like eight days out from having total knee replacement.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, I had a total knee replacement eight days ago. I've been handling it amazingly. Not true at all. I generally consider myself a super man of sorts. And I'm just gonna have to say I think they use kryptonite on the operating table because this has put me on my back uh more than I thought it would.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

You're actually doing really well. You are you have been walking around, you're just you're off a walker, you're on a cane, like you're doing all your exercises. Like I'm highly impressed because I would still be like in bed asking for bonbons. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

And it was an it was uh quite an amazing process at the hospital. I mean, I got to wear a diaper for the first time. That was fun for the first time.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

I dressed up as a ghost. You did?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Went around the room as a ghost. We annoyed every nurse that.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

The nursing staff loved you.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Almost fell over almost fell over once. Yeah, it was awesome. Uh the the PT lady had to catch me.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

So that was so funny.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

And the best part about it so far has been the drugs. Yes. Has been the drugs. Um, yeah. So I mean, it was a natural thing, you know, bait, you know, beating my body up for many, many years. Uh, it had just taken a toll finally, bone on bone, bone inside the knee, bone pieces in there. They had to vacuum out. And so I'm looking forward to the results. Yeah. I'll say that. You know, because there there were so many limiting things to how the knee was. Stairs were an issue.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Pickleball was an issue.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Pickleball was a big issue. Yeah, there's some days you're just no, not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah. Yeah. Then on the days that did happen, you were hurting for days after.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yeah, I actually so this is a year that I've also taken 300% more baths than I ever had in my whole lifetime. That's true. Uh, which is th to say three, three. Uh, when my knee was acting up like that. So just realizing that you know you can take things a little slow, you don't have to rebound as fast, uh, which is tough for all of us. All of us. So, yeah, it is tough to to take an take a knee, so to I knew it was good. They took it right at the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Literally.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Now they gave me a bionic one. I believe I'm part Wolverine now, so that is also the other benefit.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

But some good back scratching if you are. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. How about you, paddle princess? You got something coming up on Thursday. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

So my new era is turning 40. 40. I would say the biggest change in this new era that's coming up is just the I don't give a shit.

unknown 4:45

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Like that's ear muffs.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

That's my new philosophy for everything. Like, you don't like what I said, I meant what I said. I'm not gonna apologize and rephrase it to fit your fluffiness or whatever you need. Like, I said what I said, and I meant what I said, and I don't want to go do that, so I'm not going to. I'm not gonna give you an excuse. Like, I am just in my, this is a me era. I have been a people pleaser for 40 years, and now I'm just in my, I'm gonna do what I want to do, whether other people like it or not.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I love it. I'm still going to be kind and loving and gracious and empathetic towards people.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

You don't have to be a doormat though.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yes, I'm not gonna be a doormat and I'm not going to settle for less. Roll. Yeah, I I'm not going to. At this point in my life, like it is now my turn. It's my turn to live my life and live in my happiness and do what I want to do. I'm so excited for that. I am too. It's it's been a huge mental just stumbling block that I've dealt with for a very, very long time.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Oh, yeah, you are a people pleaser. 100%. You will put your you will put yourself behind so others may gain all these.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

I have for a very long time, and I'm also a chronic overthinker and overprocessor. And now it's like, okay, so that happened. Let's move on. I love it. I I don't want to spend any more of my mental, emotional, physical health worrying about what other people think about me, or if I said something that's gonna tick them off, or if I said something that is gonna rub somebody the wrong way, just a big like at this point, I feel like if I upset someone and I did something wrong, then you are an adult and you can come to me and tell me that it happened, and then we can talk about it. And if I did something wrong, I will own up to it and I will apply it.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

But the majority of the time it's not it's no head and or how they take it. Like it's not your responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yes, other people's feelings are not your responsibility. Now, now that doesn't that's not to say, and I know you, you're not gonna go out, you're you're not out of your way to offend people.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

But there's the filters we put on ourselves are so massive nowadays. 100%. I feel like we're gonna just everybody's uh professionally offended nowadays, number one.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

So I feel like my I don't know, what did you call it? What are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Rebranding. With the rebranding. Rebranding. Stay with the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

The rebrand era. The rebrand era.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

I feel like we also don't give an S.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

No, I feel like mine is just the opposite. I've always not given a shit. Really? And I've I've always just what what is it that you and and Carrie say that my tagline is? I'll do what I do.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

I do what I do, I do what I do, and that's how I've always been.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

Like, I'll do it, like I don't care if you don't like it, whatever. Yeah, but that also means that I try to control everything. And and so my rebrand is learning how to slow down, not have to be in charge of everything, not try to take control of everything, not try to run everybody else's business that's not mine. Although today, what was it today that I was like, why am I even trying to rebrand this whole guy? My physical therapy, my physical therapy that worked the way it was run.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

So I But there, you know, there's a phrase that I learned a long time in the military, and it served me tremendously all throughout all my careers, even to this day. And I I didn't come up with it. Some guy gave it to me, and I'm sure he got it from somewhere. Another salty soldier. I got that out. That was awesome. It was the lion does not concern himself with the thoughts of the gazelle. That's correct. I I'm the lion. Sorry, gazelle. Yeah, and I'm gonna do lion things.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Uh my I guess my thing is is it's not like I don't care about other people's feelings, but I just move very, very, very fast. Yes. And I will fix and change and move and go. And and so I'm trying to not be there. Right. I'm gonna start next week.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

You've been doing a fabulous job. I really have to say that. And I think that kind of all of our rebrands are tying in together. Oh, for sure. So, like guys surgery, you're having to slow down and got so much control. Yes, you're taking care of him, so you can't control so much. You've given up a lot of your control over your main business to me and my other leadership partner, and so we are in now this new era, and it we're kind of both her and I are both in this. No, we're not here to you're amplified for sure. Yes, absolutely. And so it has leveled us up in ways that we didn't think that it would, and it's changed us mentally and emotionally. So I think that all three of us in our different rebrands are it's affecting and helping and changing and supporting each other.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

And I think what's also weird is like I know everyone says, like, oh, after you, you know, turn 40, like everything changes and you just start to not care. And the thing is, is I have to totally agree with that. Like I'm oh I've been over 40, guys been over 40 for like a century. Yes, and so we we've been through that, that thing that you're going through. And it is, it's like the best. It's like having all the wisdom and knowledge, but being 20 again. Yes, that's what it, that's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

40 was is such a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

I'm I'm really excited for it to fully kick in. Cause right now I'm still kind of timid. I'm still kind of like, am I doing the right thing?

SPEAKER_04 10:02

Like, but it's when your birthday comes on Thursday, it's gonna kick in. You're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

And like immediately, like I'm gonna wake up and be like, sorry, guy, I can't take you to your PT appointment. You're gonna have to do it. You're gonna have to walk.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

You're taking him to PT. I'll walk. It's it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

And then it'll kick in.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

I promise it'll kick in, and you're gonna be like, I'm so cool. I'm just this is my life, and I love it. So that's what I want.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Like, I have a photo shoot scheduled for this weekend, and some of it is like cute, westerny, some of it is a little bit more provocative, which I've never really done.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Hey now.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

And some of it is coming.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Check our insta. Check our insta, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

And well, because I want to feel I don't want to feel frumpy. Frumpy, yeah. I don't want to feel old and frumpy. I want to feel hot and liberated. Like that's how I want to feel. And then the other one I think I did photos like that at 40.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

No, you did them as a teen. And I'm I'm hoping you're gonna do the same thing, like the county fair where they dress you up in the cowboy stuff.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

And do black and white. You're gonna go to the saloon. Gonna go track down Jesse James.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Did you really do pictures like that? Because I don't remember them. I have boudoir pictures. Oh, I have never done they're hanging up in my living room and kitchen. No, they're not. I've never once seen them.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I have I have they're in my wallet.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

You don't have pictures in your wallet. Come on now. But the third part of the photo shoot is like me what I have planned is me with like a glass of champagne and my middle finger up.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

There you go. I can't wait to see it.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

And a chart that says don't care.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

There you go. Like that's right.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

I'm just, yeah. So super excited. That's our new eras. We're good.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Love it. If you're coming into new era, let us know. If you are new era at the baseball and sports company, let us know also. Will it sponsor us for our new eras? Well, well, well. That's a deep subject.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

We have a dumb bad joke.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

We have some fan mail, and we love fan mail. I'm just gonna tell you right now at the top of this bdepodcast.com,

Fan Mail (Shout Outs, Comments, Love)

SPEAKER_00 11:58

bdepodcast.com to get your fan mail to us. It helps promote the show and keeps us going for sure. We've got a card here from Sean Paul. We love us some Sean Paul pickleball out there in the O H I O. Uh the card says, Wish I may, wish I might, wish you well. And it's Sean Paul to me saying, you know, get well for your knee surgery. He just had knee surgery as well. So we want to send that right back to him as well wishes. He says, Thank you very much for donating to my GoFundMe. So I do want to do a shout-out on that as well. Go find Sean Paul Pickleball. I it's too long for me to say here on the podcast. I think his GoFundMe is still going. So go find that if it's on your heart to go do that for that uh man. He's an amazing guy in the pickleball community, just amazing all around. And uh he says, You all have been amazing to me, small print, especially guy.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

That's not fair.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Just the tip. Just the tip. Quick pickleball wisdom, in and out before you know it. If you apologize after every mistake, you're not being polite, you're announcing your confidence level. Missing is part of the game. Everyone does it. But when you say

Just The Tip - Pickleball Wisdom

SPEAKER_01 13:02

sorry after every ball, you're telling your partner and your opponents you expect to mess up. That energy shows. Confidence isn't never missing. It's missing, nodding once and being ready for the next rally. Miss it, own it, and move on. The loudest thing you can say on the court is nothing at all.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

It's time for pickleball. Our guest today is a guy who said, you know what pickleball really needs is therapy. I couldn't agree more. He created a podcast, wrote a book, and built an entire coaching system around the idea that your mind is either your greatest

Pickle Pals - Deep Dive with a Pickleball Court, Club or Influencer

SPEAKER_00 13:42

asset or your worst enemy on the court. I think you've all experienced that. He's a senior pro who won who won bronze at the 2024 Nationals, and he lives by one simple philosophy that I know our other co-hosts would love. Do the least necessary to get the job done, whether that's shaving his beard or winning at pickleball. From Tampa, Florida, we've got Tony Roig with us, the co-founder of Better Pickleball and host of the Pickleball Therapy Podcast. Tony, thank you so much for being on with us. This is big for us.

SPEAKER_05 14:08

Guy, I appreciate you having me on and uh I love the introduction. I'm gonna, you know, from now on, I'm gonna be like, hey, I need to say something about myself. I'm gonna call you up. Hey guy, can you like I'll send you some pieces and you you put that together. So and I love your your intro music. Big props on that.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah. Now I've got to ask a question. You know, the 2024 uh nationals uh winning bronze. I mean, obviously there's a lot that goes into that for the metal game. Uh kind of walk uh walk us uh and our listeners through that. Sure.

SPEAKER_05 14:34

And you know, it's a really interesting format, guy. And you and I were talking a little bit before we got on about the sense of community in pickleball and how valuable that is to you know players and to just the experience, right? And I think it's one of the things that makes pickleball unique. Yeah. And I I will tell you, you know, and and there's the overall pickleball community, and I think, you know, when and I I'm sure you're the same way, but like when I travel or I'm just walking around and I hear the pock, I'm like, I turn, I'm looking for it. Like I when I was in New York City, I don't know, a few months back, I was walking through some areas. I didn't expect pickleball courts. And these were random, like, you know, like one of those little like uh like a community park that just has a swing set and a really small, but they have one pickleball court. And so you're walking all of a sudden you're pock, pock, and you're like, what's happening? Yeah, but but so you have the big community, and then you have these like you have sub-communities within our community, right? That that build on themselves. And so one of these that's really powerful is the parapickleball community or wheelchair pickleball community. Yeah. So I was I was I I had the pleasure of playing with my friend Ken Dumont from Canada, who's uh, you know, a wheelchair player, battles really hard in the sport and things like that. And he asked me to play hybrid, which is one, they call it one up, one down. So one standing player, one one wheelchair player. So we were playing in that division, and um, I don't remember how it was organized. It was either like 4-0 plus or 4-5 plus, but it was like the highest level of that at the at the nationals that year. And um, and so we played our first round match against uh, and I'm I think it was Ryan and I can't remember the other gentleman, Troy, I think. Um anyway, so we play them. We're we win. I'm telling you the full story because I think this will resonate. So we play the we win the first game, we're up 10-6 in the second game, right? They mount the great comeback and they beat us 12-10 in the second game and beat us the third game. So they knock us down to the backdraw. So now we're in the backdraw. We make it through the backdraw. Wow. We get to the bronze medal match because this is what one of those where you finish, you can't make it back up to gold, but you can make it to bronze. So we make it to the bronze medal match, and who do we face? The same team again. And so now we've and I knew it was gonna be a good match because you know we we you know went three the first time and it was competitive. So I was like, this is gonna be a great match. And I'll tell you the sense of community there, like it was bronze medal, so good gold silver was done. Every other game was done, right? Everybody had concluded, and it was like the sun was setting. It was like a beautiful, we were in one of those courts that had like a maybe like three-level bleachers on the side, small bleachers for people to sit on. And um, and everybody was there. Like the whole, like everybody who played that day was hanging out, you know, and watching. So we we split games and then we're in game three, and we're down. I I'm I'm pretty confident. I'm going off memory a little bit here, but I'm pretty confident the score was like either 9-4 or 10-4. We're down. And I I knew that Ken was feeling a lot of pressure, right? Because, you know, I'm a senior pro player, right? And Ken's newer to the sport than I am. And so, you know, it's normal, right? That the that he's gonna feel more pressure than I'm he's you know, being targeted, which is fine. There's and just to be clear, guys, listening, guys and gals listening, the wheelchair players want you to go at them. Like, there's no that they'll they'll tell you, like basically, like, do not go easy on me. This is you gotta play me straight up. And I'm like, so that's so I did I did, and and and our opponent handled it magically. His volleys were amazing. Um, his uh his whole game was amazing, and the other guy too, frankly. But anyway, so Ken's getting targeted. So it's like, I think we were serving, and I look at Ken and and I can see tension in him, right? So I pulled out like some of my pickleball therapy ideas, and I was like, I looked at him, I said, okay, we did gratitude in the moment. I just looked at Ken and I go, Ken, listen, you know, let's look around you for a second, right? And again, it's beautiful sunset. You know, it's like the I mean, the sky was like pink, and like, you know, there's all these people around us. And I'm like, you know, you're playing at nationals, man. We're playing in the bronze medal match. There's no, you know, there's nothing, nothing. It's awesome, man. Just enjoy the moment. Yeah. Here's what happens, guy. He smiles. Yeah. So he smiles. He seemed like a smile, right? So it relaxes him. So we we win that point. So I look at him and I go, hey, we just won that point. If you don't F and smile this time, we're gonna have a problem. So what does he do? He smiles again. And what happens? We win that point.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

And then you look at him and go, like, you're gonna you're gonna attempt fate now, whatever. You keep going with it, right? So we end up, we end up going back to 8-10. They take a timeout. I go to my friends, were there from better pickleball, some of the team were there, and I walk over and I'm like, there's no way we're gonna do to them what they did to us, right? Like that 12-10 thing they did to us. Sure enough, we come back and beat him 1210. And it was, I'm telling you, guy, it was on a smile. It wasn't, we didn't change strategy. It wasn't like all of a sudden we figured out, oh, you know what, we're hitting to the wrong place. Or no, it was just Ken relaxed a little bit. He smiled, he relaxed, he played his game, and we ended up winning. Yeah, bronze on a smile, if you want to call it that.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

I love that. I I love that. And and you, you're right, you're absolutely right. When you when you get too big in the moment, when you get too over your feet, I say, you know, it it it then it becomes not as fun as what it started out to be. And pickleball is just fun, whether you're whether you're you know trying to go for bronze or gold or silver, pickleball is still about fun and it's about connection. And you can you can get too far in the you know, people that snow ski, oh, too far over your skis, um, too far over your toes thing. And and then that's when things start crashing down. So that's so great that you grounded him, you brought him back to what is important about it, uh, which was the fun, which was you know being right where he was in the moment instead of so far down the road of losing, you know.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

That that's so not worrying about like the next mistake you're gonna make and things like that, and then you know, and and that lets you just like you said, be in the moment, be in the zone. And you know what? Let's say we hadn't come back and won. It's still the same, like it's the same experience, right? We're still in the same court, doing the same thing. Uh and frankly, if you if you want to step back from it a second and look at it like big picture, the reason we got bronze that they didn't get bronze was because of the order of the matches, right? Because they beat us and we beat them. Yeah. If you take those and reverse them, they get bronze and we don't. So it's like there's things like that that happen that like I think you know, players look at it and go like, you know, I lost the game or won the game. A lot sometimes it's simply like the order of events or the, you know what I mean? It's little things like that. And so, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, absolutely. Now it's it's gotta be those little moments like that, just in your life, little winks from the universe or or God, where wherever you are with your faith, that just say, okay, you know, there's there's something here. And and so that's gotta drive some of the book writing, right? The the pickleball therapy book that that came out recently. So are are there a lot of stories like that that kind of led up to the book, or were you always thinking about a book and uh before that?

SPEAKER_05 20:36

So I've I've always enjoyed writing. And like I the first book that I wrote was like in I think it was like in 18 or 19, it's called Play Pickleball. It's like a beginner's guide to pickleball. It's still out there on Amazon. It doesn't we don't push it that much, but it's still there. I wrote that before, even so it was like in 18 or 19, I think. Um so I've always enjoyed writing and just to like the podcast actually was a personal project. And what I mean by that is I started the podcast for my journey. Like I wanted to explore things myself, and I said, okay, talking about it helps me explore it. And some of the podcasts, actually, you can hear me like pivot in the middle of it and go like, oh, that's a good idea. I hadn't thought about that. And then so I'm gonna explore that and we'll come back to it later. So it's to me, it's it's an exploratory idea, you know, where I share some concepts, but also as I work through them with the audience, if you will, or through the process, then that helps me figure stuff out. And then I've also written, you know, inside our better pickleball ecosystem, I write, you know, several articles and blogs and things like that. I write for the pickleball kitchen and I do some other things like that. So I'm always writing. And so it the book was like grabs grabbing those ideas and pulling them together. I will tell you one interesting thing that might think it's interesting to like think about the depth of the mental side. So when I start writing the book, right, I'm like, you know, I have some concepts that are like that are a certain type of thing, and others a certain type of thing. And then it it's like, how do I bring these together? Actually, the book that I wrote is actually gonna be it's the first of three books in the mental side because as I thought about it more and I started organizing it, I realized, you know what, there's really three different Areas that are important. One is the book, which I'll get back to in a second. But the second one is the one that most players think about, which is what I'm calling it play. So that's play mental game, meaning like focus on the court, right? And like the thing I did with Ken, that's more like a play. It has some of the the third, the book I wrote, which I'll explain in a second, but it also has like what can you do during a game to optimize your ability to play that game well. So that's one area. The other area is improvement because that as a coach, what I find is that presents its own set of mental challenges, right? The frustration of like, geez, you know, I've been working on, I've been drilling this for like three months and it's not improving or whatever. Sure. So that's its own challenges. But then the book, I started with this one because I think this is the most valuable one, which is perspective. And that's like the really big picture idea of how you engage with the sport, how the sport engages with you, how you navigate yourself as a human being. Um, you know, things like that. And so, and so basically the book is like it's about you first understanding yourself better, then understanding the game better, because I think it's important to understand that we do play a game where there's a winner and a loser. This is not uh like this is not a like throwing frisbee, which is nothing wrong with that. You can throw frisbee and it's uh it's very engaging, right? Yeah, you can play other things that aren't as like stressful as win-lose. You can also do things that are like golf is fine, but golf is like you against the course, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? Same thing with bowling to some extent, right? It's you and the lanes.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah. Easier to smoke a cigar, easier to smoke a cigar during golf than that. 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

But the uh so anyway, so so so you have that and then and then we bring them together, right? So we bring, we have you, we have the game, then we have you and the game, and then we talk about like the other actors in the game because I think that's something that's I think we lose sight of that sometimes, you know, that there's other other folks that are part of this process, you know, that are just as important as we are in the overall scheme of things, and not and remembering them, I think, really helps. So that's what this book is about is about perspective. And I think the perspective lessons, guy, are good for pickleball, but they're also good for life, you know. So you they're the kind of things you can take off court. Yes. Um, whereas like, you know, learning how to like see the ball is really helpful while you're playing, but you know, you're not seeing the ball when you're driving or at the grocery store and have a confrontation with somebody or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

So yeah, no, that makes that makes total sense the parallel to life because you know, figuring out what is my universe, then figuring out how I fit in the universe, and then what is in my sphere of of influence within that universe, kind of the thing. And so, yeah, that makes total sense. Um, and and it is, you know, it's a it's a book for people not just to get involved with pickleball or better at pickleball, but it is, you know, better. There's a parallel there with getting better at life too, and figuring out, you know, where you fit in it. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

And I would say, guys, my my view on pickleball is I think you can look at pickleball as like a canvas, you know what I mean? And so, like, it's this beautiful canvas that you get to use to to enjoy the sport, but also work on you, right? And you can work on yourself physically, right? You improve your phys, your physique, both playing pickleball, but also saying, you know what, I'm having difficulty getting down into my dinks, so I'm gonna do some squats, which will help you play pickleball better and you also live better. But also your mental part, right? Where you can like you can use the challenges, the stresses of pickleball, even like, you know, fear of open play, for instance, right? Which is natural for some, right? That they're afraid to go to open play. But now you you challenge yourself, you use pickleball. Now you're able to go maybe to a movie theater around people or whatever. You know, those kind of things melt away more because you're using pickleball as that canvas to work on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

So yeah, I love that. And let's pivot a little bit to the to the three pillars uh framework in better pickleball, the mechanical, strategic, and athletic. And I think most coaches focus on the first two, the mechanical and strategic. But I think the uh the athletic pillar, the mind-body connection, that's the one people overlook. Would you would you say that's right?

SPEAKER_05 25:31

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I think I'll I'll I'll if you allow me to, I'd like to come back to mechanical and strategic in a second, because I think there's an overlay that is missing in a lot of players' journeys that will help them. But yes, on the athletic pillar, yes. I mean, and and this is the stuff like we just mentioned about the canvas, right? It's so valuable because you're gonna play like way better pickleball, right? But not just that, you're gonna live better. You're gonna live better, you're gonna like, you know, you're gonna get around the house better, you're gonna feel better about you're not gonna get injured as often just doing stuff for you, whatever. I mean, your whole life, quality of life goes up by using pickleball as like your focal point for this mind-body work, but you get so much benefit from it. And to be pragmatic, because I think we need to be pragmatic at some point, guy, you're gonna win a lot more games. You're gonna play better, you're gonna, you know, kick more ass, if you will. So yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Absolutely. You know, people who aren't great at mechanics and know all the strategies, they they can hit every shot and know when to hit it, but still losing in tournaments. So I what what do you think is missing?

SPEAKER_05 26:28

Well, I mean, it could it can be a couple of things. I mean, uh there there's some local players here, you know, I I uh that I who I play with who are very they're amazing pickleball players, right? Amazing. But like after four games, you know they're toast, you know, in a session. You know, so like if you're playing with them, like if we start at eight and you're playing with them at 1030, they're done. They're like, they can't even make it to the line. They're just so I don't care how good their game is, right? When you know, when they're fresh because they're not fresh anymore. Yeah. And so yeah, if you're gonna play, certainly you're gonna play tournaments and stuff like that, you need to focus on it because tournaments are long days. But the mental part, right? Same thing. I mean, you have players who like uh I think in um golf they call them like, you know, they're like ranger, ranger rick or something like that, where basically like on the range, they're like they hit everything and then they get on the golf course when there's a little bit of pressure and all of a sudden everything collapses. And it's the same thing for pickleball players. I mean, pick there, they're I play with pickleball players, guy. I would I would tell you I'm not the I'm not the prettiest pickleball player in terms of like the way I hit balls and stuff like that. I I'm effective with them, but it's not I play with pickleball players who have much nicer shots than I do, objectively. Like their their shots, I'm like, wow, that's a really pretty shot. But when the chips are down and it's like nine-nine, I'm more likely to execute successfully than they are. Sure. Why? Sure. What's the difference? It's just stuff in the tank. The mental part. Yeah, well, it's it's up here. That's the mental part where I'm like, you know, they're they're they're breaking down mentally. I'm not breaking down mentally. I'll tell you a funny story. This is I won't name names, but this is uh happening a tournament at the US Open. We're playing, it was a 15-pointer, so it's a US Open, and it was one of the hot days. It was like, have you ever been to the Naples and the it was hot, it was hot that day. Oh, yeah. And we'd played several, several, yeah, human. And we were played several games already. And I'm I'm a little I'm not in the best shape, right? I'm okay shape, but I'm not like cardio-wise. So I'm like, I'm a little gassed. And we were up and they they were making a run, and um, I think we got the ball back. And this player, he's he's known for doing this. He he loves the double timeout. Like he thinks it's like a I don't know, like it's a thing he does. He calls double timeouts. Now it does get in some players' heads. It does, it does get in some players' heads. For sure. Me, no. So I go to serve, he calls timeout right away, right? Right by serve. He has a timing thing too. He calls a timeout. I don't, I don't care. I go to the side, I'm talking to my partner, I'm drinking my water, whatever. I go to serve again. Now I'm gassed. I'm totally gassed. I go to serve again. He calls a second time out. I go, I look at my partner, I'm like, thank you, my friend, you know, for calling the timeout because now I have an extra minute of recovery. But that's an example of like some, but so I I have played, I did play with a partner against that, uh, a male partner against that player a few years back. We were ahead, he did that, and my partner lost his shit. Like he couldn't concentrate anymore. And I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. You know, I'm like, that doesn't bother me at all. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, the mental aspect of the game is sometimes funny. And coming from my background, prior military and and currently in law enforcement and some other things I did overseas and stuff, there's nothing that's gonna take me off of my mental game. You know, I've I've been in some stuff and I've done some things, so you can do whatever you want. I'm I'm there to have fun, and fun is going to be what I lead with in everything that I do. So you're not no, you're not gonna be taking me off my game. And it but I do think some of the, you know, once you start seeing your duper go up, then it becomes more important to win than fun. And sometimes that's when you see people crashing out.

SPEAKER_05 29:28

And I think I think that's I think what happens, guy, is you know, my experience, and it happened to me, is um the minute you have expectations for yourself. Like in other words, like you know, when you when and you I've seen a lot of little posts, you know, little like short videos about this recently, and I I think they're spot on. You know, it's like when you first started playing, it's like if you're playing with house money, it doesn't matter. You don't know what you're doing anyway, so it's like that's win or lose doesn't matter. Then all of a sudden you win a few games, and now people are saying, hey, guys, you know, that guy, guy's pretty good, you know, and now you're like, oh shit, now I can't, I I don't want to lose now because then I'm they're gonna think less of me, right? Or whatever, or it's duper maybe or whatever, right? There's some driver that's creating this like I can't. And I I will tell you, I feel it sometimes because you know, I do have a a solid duper and I'm a senior pro and I'm whatever. And so, like, if I jump into open play at the facility, I you know, I'll lose sometimes, right? It just happens. And so, but I do it, it doesn't my I have to process it because my initial reaction is not positive. My initial reaction is I'm feeling negative about the experience, and then I just kind of, you know, I'm able to reframe it, but the initial reaction is not a good one.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah. So people are listening right now and they're stuck. They're they're plateaued, they're frustrated, they're not improving, uh, all the things, right? So, what's one mental shift you would tell them they need to make before their next game?

SPEAKER_05 30:37

All right. I'm gonna now I'm gonna give, I'm gonna go back to the thing, the overlay I was gonna give you because that answers this question. So we talked about the three pillars, right? And that's something that we developed. That's something that I I really my passion guy, I love writing the book and I like doing the podcast, but my real passion is this is basically like, how do we strengthen players' relationships with the sport through their understanding of pickleball? I think that's super important. I think it's it's that's overlooked. And I I always say it's overlooked, frankly. I'm I don't, it's not like the coaches don't want to do that, right? But I'm not sure that some coaches think that way. Like, like that's really your job as a coach. Is it's not just to teach them how to hit a third shot drop or something successfully. That's fine. But it's more like, okay, can I help this player build a stronger bond with the sport through my job? And my job here, I don't do facilities, I don't do paddles, I don't do balls. My job is to teach. My job is to transfer knowledge, right? So so that's what the three pillars of pickleball were a helpful way of like, you know, siloing that so we can constantly you know focus on areas. So the first two that we talked about, or the first two are the mechanical and strategic. Mechanical is, you know, how to hit the ball, strategic is what shot to hit when. But there's an overlay that overlays those two, and which is this framework idea that we we use, which is framework, objectives, strategies, and shots. So when you look at that way, right, framework, objectives, strategies, and shots, strategies, strategic pillar, shots, mechanical pillar. A lot of the players that you're that you're referencing, right, who are frustrated and kind of like or feel stuck or whatever, they're they're stuck in that, in this cycle of strategies and shots, which is YouTube does that, right? The the little videos on the the Insta and all that, those help with strategies and shots. But if you don't understand how the strategies and shots fit into the bigger picture of the sport, in other words, how the sport is put together, then it's kind of like it feels you feel like a at a loss. So we always start with all our stuff with framework, which is this is how pickleball is built. This is the game is constructed. And we just we mentioned one earlier, which seems simple, but I think it's important to keep in mind. We play a game with a winner and a loser. We play a game where every rally has a winner and a loser. And so you understand that as framework. That's the game, how it's built. Anyway, then you go deeper with it, and then you start understanding how these different shots that you hit and strategies you hit fit within the bigger picture because you go from framework to objectives. Now I have objectives and I'm able to see a bigger picture. But like I'll give you an example of a shot that's like one of the most talked-about shots, and it's irrelevant until 4.0. And that's the third shot drop. The third shot drop is absolutely irrelevant until you're a 4.0, roughly. You don't need it. And but what do three O's do? They spend an inordinate amount of time learning how to hit the shot. The problem is the shot's fine. Maybe they hit the shot great, but they don't know what to do with it. Like they hit the shot, and then what are you doing next? Your movement is incorrect. Where do I go? Yeah, your movement's incorrect. Right, exactly. So why are you trying to solve the puzzle that way when there's other ways to solve the puzzle, right? And that's how we teach in our coaching that would be more effective for you right now without having to worry about this. And and the third shot drop is the hardest shot to hit a pickleball. So they're starting with the hardest shot that's not doing them any good. Of course they're frustrated. Of course they feel like, yeah, I'm not improving because they're worried about the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah, let's just, I mean, you might as well work on Ernie's while you're at it, you know. Let's let ATPs, let's work on those two.

SPEAKER_05 33:33

You're preaching now. I'm gonna aim a aim amen. You're preaching. I I agree. Yeah, it's like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah, let's just work on those things too while we're at it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because it makes sense, you know. Knowing where to where to hit and when to hit is great, but knowing how to put all that together to get to 15 points, 12 points, that's the game, right? And and how to do that successfully every time. Put it all together in the in the in the sphere of it. I mean, that's that's that's really uh.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

And guy, isn't that but isn't that the bigger isn't that more fulfilling too? Like in other words, you're out there and you're building a rally that you understand why you're doing what you're doing. Listen, I make mistakes all the time when I play. I played this morning, so but I I make mistakes. But when I make the mistake, I'm like, oh yeah, okay. I see what I did. You know, because I I understand that I can read the room. I understand what's happening. So anyway, much more fulfilling, I think.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, especially when you do understand, okay, that mistake was made because of this. Yeah. And then that leads to the correction of errors there. Yep. Where's everybody gonna find you? I mean, everybody's gonna want to go find you after this for sure. And I encourage all of our listeners to go the podcast, you know, the the better pickleball, everything. Where in the book, where where are they gonna find you?

SPEAKER_05 34:36

I'm gonna give you uh like the easiest place to go find everything because it's an umbrella organization is betterpickleball.com. Easy to remember because it's just you want to get better, you want to play better. Okay, then what do you want to do better?pickleball.com. And then the podcast called Pickleball Therapy. It's available on every podcast platform out there. The books call the same thing, so easy to remember. And then on Insta or anything like that, we have some version of Best Pickleball because you know those things get taken sometimes. So you can find us there, but betterpickleball.com is the best place to go to find, you can find all the YouTube channels, everything that we have there. You can also find our core our classes, our camps, and everything that we do.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah, Better Pickleball is a great resource. Uh, a lot of a lot of stuff over there. The podcast is freaking amazing. Over 200 episodes on there. And it is you want to be better at pickleball, have that on immediately after this. Or you can put it on before if you want to, too. It's it's okay with us. Uh, but both of these podcasts, uh, we're gonna make you laugh, and then Tony's gonna uh uh make you better. All right. So go get his podcast, go get the book for sure. Tony, again, thank you so much for being on the Big Dink Energy Podcast. Love it. And uh, I know we're just gonna stay connected over this.

SPEAKER_05 35:37

Guy, pleasure to be on here with you. And listen, I really appreciate what you're doing to help the sport of pickleball grow. You know, I encourage your listeners to keep keep plugging in with you. I love the your perspective. You have a really healthy, positive perspective. So let's keep let's keep growing the sport, guys, and making it available to everybody.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

It's time to pick six.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Pick six, where we take one question each, bring two answers, and immediately regret agreeing to this segment as always. Pick six tonight is this things

Pick 6 ( 1 question and 6 answers)

SPEAKER_00 36:06

we now say as adults that we swore we never would. Things we now say as adults that we swore we never would.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

This is one of the most infuriating sentences in the English language. Are you ready? Yes, ready. We have food at home. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah, burgers at home.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

We have food at home.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

That kind of goes ties in with mine because mine was I don't want to go out to eat.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah. Kind of along the same lines. I'm so excited to stay in.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

Right. My other one is because I said so. Oh, like that phrase every kid says, I'm never gonna say that. No, I say it all the damn time now.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

I think mine would be my next one and my final one would just be no, you don't need that. Put it back.

unknown 36:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Stephanie has literally had to cart check me before. Like when we first became friends, I would want to buy anything and everything. And now I'm like cart checking myself and everyone around me.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Like, you don't need that.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

For the old men out there, not me, but other old men who may be the same age as me. This is not music.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

Oh, yes. Turn that down. What the hell is that? I'm sure my parents thought easy was auto tune.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Okay, yeah. I want to listen to a machine sing to me. Thanks. Get up in our instas and our DMs and all the things, bdepodcast.com. Let us know your pick six from this. Things you say now that you swore you never would. Oh news you can use. Stand by for news.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

I was wondering if you were gonna do that. City Pickle just opened a 37,000

News You Can Use

SPEAKER_01 37:42

square foot flagship in the heart of Times Square at 1501 Broadway inside the historic Paramount building. It's their first year-round Manhattan location and now serves as their corporate headquarters. The building dates back to 1927 and once housed in Paramount Studios. 60 years after the original Paramount Theater closed, the space is now back in action, this time with pickleball. The eighth floor venue features seven professional grade courts with a full service bar and restaurant, lounge, and event spaces, co-working areas and private shower suites. You can literally play above Times Square, shower, grab a cocktail, and take a meeting without ever leaving the floor. They preserve the exposed brick, concrete, and soaring 18-foot ceilings, then layered in dark green tones, leather accents, and riff-cut oak for a private club deal. Only 120 memberships will be released for 2026, but the public can still book court time. Pickleball has officially moved from park courts to primetime real estate. Time square, lights, and paddle. Love it. It's beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Come on down to the pickleball. Come on, saying you imagine though, like I saw some of the pictures of the res renovation, and then I saw a little, I don't know if it's a video or a little tiny doc on the guy putting it together, and he's trying to keep some of the same nostalgia, keep some of the same stuff and accessories and stuff. Yeah that you can. But it is still in New York City. So I mean, I I guess you could probably get an advance uh ticket sales for the stapping and mugging package. Probably not in that pickable Nikki, I think, uh had mentioned it.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Yeah, she did.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

And I just think, I mean, I love the marquee. Yes. First of all, I'm a huge Broadway person.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

So you you fla you in your flapper girl outfit all the time, right? All the time.

SPEAKER_04 39:30

And I just when I saw it and it had the the marquee up there, I was like, wow, this is just gonna be so cool. And not only that, the best, and I shared it on our Instagram, was their like commercial, and they use some of the Juilliard dancers, and they did like a whole fame type dance thing. I like watched it 300 times, I swear. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

I just think it's so cool that pickleball is like, you know, not just in parks and not just has pickleball facilities, but like in the heart of Times Square.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah, and you're repurposing that space.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

It has so much nostalgia and bringing it like to 2026. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Cigarettes, cigar.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Like you can literally go play pickleball and like they have glass meeting areas. So you can go play a game and then go and have like a corporate meeting.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

There are several um indoor pickleball courts that have shared meeting spaces. I just love that. It's I love that too. Like I would totally do I do it now. I just put my computer up, but I mean a nice, you know, dedicated space is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Someone is missing out right now, and I'm just gonna tell you right now it's steal my idea because I don't have enough time. You need to get a cigar bar attached to the pickleball.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

I know.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Get a cigar bar attached to the pickleball.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

And also have like an oxygen lounge so that we could all breathe after smoking a cigar.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Don't come in. If you don't want to be where men are, don't you?

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Stogie and paddles or something. Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yeah, garimballs.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

That's it for this episode, unless you've got something to say. Think we got it wrong, have a better take? We want to hear it. Find us at bdepodcast.com or at bdepodcast on the social. Drop us a message. We might just speak to you in the next episode. If you had a good time, well, stay

Wrap-Up & CTA - Final thoughts, shoutouts, and how to engage with us

SPEAKER_00 41:05

into it. If not, maybe try again with the wrong people. So you know the deal. Follow the show, tell a friend, and leave us a review. Or just pretend it's never happened. Until next time, keep the date stopped in the energy to date.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

You're a hot

Mic’s Off, Mouths On – raw, unfiltered chat

SPEAKER_01 41:23

mess.